The Butterfly Effect, Time Travel, and You

80

By lxxy

Special thanks to fellow Hubber Cris A for this photo!
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Special thanks to fellow Hubber Cris A for this photo!

(Cris A's Portraits of Gentlemen Hubbers!)

Fellow poetic thinker, Mentalist acer, has yet again asked me a question. This instance, he inquires about the butterfly effect and how it might affect time travel.

Good question!

Good news, everyone! I'm about to seriously hurt your minds with theoretical physics.

Ready?

Don't forget to put on groovy music, take a few deep breathes (or swigs of drink of choice) and perhaps a few puffs on that cigar, cigarette, or cigajoint .

Let's Start at the Top of the Universe and it's Dimensions

OH MY GOD! I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS!

Hold on, my young padowan of theoretical physics and quantum theories.

I've been asked the question before: what is the butterfly effect, and how does it relate to time travel and the grand father paradox?

I think I'm more equipped to answer this today, but here's my original response:

(from "Message of Hope")

mythbuster: Still thinking upon the grandfather paradox...it's sort of like a butterfly effect, right?


lxxy:

Hey Mythbuster!


Yes, the grandfather paradox I suppose is "sort of" like a butterfly effect, in that they're both easy to understand through a simple thought experiment. ;)

Actually, to be more specific--the butterfly effect deals with chaos theory. It basically says that any minute difference in initial conditions in a dynamic/open system can cause wildly divergent and great deviances in the long run for said system.


There's a movie, I'm sure you may have seen that utilizes this idea to talk about time travel and different "what-if" scenarios. But to not totally be dodgy, perhaps it's best to think of it this way:


Let's say I'm going to make a cake: eggs, flour, water, sugar. If I varied what ingredients I put in said cake, even by a pinch more or less the outcome would vary and have profound affects. Maybe with a lil more egg I go on to rule the snack cake world, or a bit more flour I kill someone.

You get the idea, right?


Whereas the Grandfather Paradox is more of a closed system event. Basically, it involves you and one of your grandparants. Let's say you have a time machine, you go back through time, and prevent them from meeting each other.

Your parents would no longer be, hence how could you be alive yourself? But here's the kicker--if you did cause this to happen--how did you time travel to begin with? This means that you must not have been able to travel back at all and so your grandparents DID meet and you WERE born. It's basically a logic loop.


Proponents of this mind boggling question have used this to discredit time travel. Except they've not fully come to grasp with one basic concept: when you travel back in time it's impossible to end up in your exact past or future.

It's more akin to the old time television series Sliders. Yes, I am able to traverse time and repeat (or see future events) that have occurred. But I'm not just sliding from one end of the spectrum of time to another, I'm creating a divergent quantum path that is now a new and separate universe.

So if I wanted to kill my grandfather, I certainly could. It just wouldn't be "my" grandfather, because the other me that is native to that reality has yet to be born.


Does this clear things up a bit?

IT CAME FROM THE 11th DIMENSION!

For the unintiated...

...there are 10 dimensions, and technically, one extra. The "eleventh," where space-time has no concept, and all permutations of reality exist at once. There, quite possibly, you just might find a God-like being who started all of this so many aeons ago. Hence the term "There is no God in Space."

But I digress.

But before I show you said pre-requisite, without getting too into the details (scroll down for more) here's something I can do to alleviate all of that mounting anxiety:

Time travel and the butterfly effect (or chaos theory, as one might call it) don't coincide with one another. The two ideas are mutually exclusive. For the why, continue below.

(the pre-requisite)

And for those of you pressed for time, let's elaborate a bit on what we know about that very subject.

  • It's the fourth dimension.
  • It's existence is arguably moot, it can be seen as a fictional creation by man.
  • So far, very few of you have yet to reliable travel back in time, only dilate it and send information instantaneously from one part of the universe to the next.

As one might consider when broaching this subject, you have to be prepared to think laterally and not just in a linear fashion.

In short, think of every action you've made--from picking your nose, to picking your outfit, to what kinda car you drive. Then add on top of that the layers of actions that have externally, be it directly or indirectly affected you.

That's right. Think about whether or not someone ahead of you gets a cab instead of you, perhaps getting into the Cash Cab or into a wreck. Perhaps you lost your wallet inĀ  cab, one person might take, another might try to return. All occur simultaneously, but as our observation collapses the quantum particles of probability only one occurs in your native space-time.

Now, call that all of "reality."

This is the sort of thinking one must have to understand the nature of the universe, and the nature of time travel.

Is it possible to shift from one point of space-time to another? Well, duh, of course. It's done already--they're called wormholes, black holes, and even Einstein's Spooky Action at a Distance.

If you want to get technical, all of space-time and the omniverse it's self has a constant speed: light. Why? Because as light travels at 186,000 miles per second, our universe and the reality contained therein is laid down.

You see, all that you witness is constantly being written to your neuropathology. You are, in effect, in the Matrix. And yes, Neo, there are pills to take to cure that issue.

Never thought it was this complicated, did you?

By now you're stroking your beard (if guy, or circus performer.) or chin and wondering what all of this, or any of this so far has to do with time travelling and the butterfly effect.

Well, I'm getting there.

Hold on, okay?

Chaos Theory

& The Butterfly Effect

What most people assume is that when they travel through time and go either into the future, or into the past...they're going back into the world they know of. Indeed, it's just as if you are Marty McFly and must make your mother fall in love with your father or risk never have time travelled before.

Now, think about that.

Does it make sense? It shouldn't. It's what's commonly referred to as "Hollywood Physics." As in, it's fake. That issue does not exist in time travel what so ever.

You see, the Butterfly Effect is Chaos Theory. This means that in a dynamic system any difference in initial conditions could cause wild and divergent distinctions in the long term.

For example, early on in your planet's history it had wildly different oxygen content in the air. It had a lot more than you're used to, so much so that there were dragonflies with ten foot wing spans, and when lightening struck--anywhere with something to burn--it ignited.

Yet, thousands of years later..here you are!

Yet, what if the ratios staid the same? Your planet would have stagnated in many ways, and grew in others. What if the planet that collided with yours early in formation never struck, and hence, you'd have no moon?

It would hardly be the earth you know and love today.

(the easiest mode of time travel)

Time Traveling, and You

Just as John Titor described his method of time travel which utilized miniature worm-hole technology (among other things.), he explained the whole reality of the situation to those who were following his posts online. In it, he describes the "many worlds theory," and confirms what most scientists already know: it's much easier to travel through space-time, than just time it's self.

If that alone wasn't the case (I'll go more in depth in a second.), just by time travelling you are already creating a divergent path, a new alternate reality.

As it happens, space-time seem to be intertwined. So whatever mechanism it may be, it's harder to go linear forward and backward than to do so and end up in a completely separate, but mostly similar worldline.

Think Sliders.

I Bet You Feel Like Him

It's quite often said that reality is stranger than fiction.

And the more your scientists discover about your universe, both seen and unseen, the more relevant and true this statement becomes.

To boil everything down to the final point:

It is not possible, and quite useless, to try and apply the Butterfly Effect to time travel. If I went back to kill the scientist that cultivated me in the test tube, I'd be creating a completely new reality whereupon I never existed. But I still would be an event in space-time. To adjust for this lack of "symmetry" the omniverse would just create a divergent time line.

If I came back to my own space-time it would actually be a space-time I knew to be very similar, but was just a teensy bit off, if there was any noticeable measure.

Likewise, I could end up in a seriously different world line. Perhaps in a universe whereupon the laws of physics aren't the same, and I end up dying in a flash as I'm exposed to plasma clouds that just can't quite form anything.

As many permutations as one can entertain in their mind, there's probably more out there.

I mean, between you and I--we've only about six senses.

So now it's your turn. What's your take? Did I justify this question enough? Or am I being unclear? Let me know, and I'll try to broaden the scope of this document!

Was this Hub Useful and Clear?

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  • Yes, I thinkl, but can't quite tell.
  • Who are you, and where am I?
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The R.S.S. Mentalist acer

Spooky Action at a Distance

johnwindbell profile image

johnwindbell Level 1 Commenter 23 months ago

...glad I didn't have a cigajoint, before reading~ wouldn't have grasped your hub a bit. King's story comes to mind,The Langoliers. I've always bin a fan of anything time altering. And surly, you must have read - The Time Travelers Wife. Enjoyed your time and the ride, as always, thanks. Now back to finish the videos.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

Hey john! Thanks for stopping by--love the new avatar! I've actually yet to read, or watch the time traveller's wife. I know, I know, sounds counter-intuitive. But it's true.

I will make more of an effort to witness it, at the very least, in the near future. :)

Ahh, and..depending on who you are, I find the cigajoint can broaden your spatial horizons. I know it does for me. ;D Spice only, totally legit in the USA--I swear! :)

Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

Sliders was one of my favorite shows. Farscape was another and one of my favorite books is A Wrinkle In Time. Have you read any of "Out On A Limb" by Shirley McClain. There is something else you should watch that also pertains to time travel and the beginning--Altered States. That movie gives me the creeps.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

Altered States...will do. I've been astral projection since I was a child, and have done more than 10 drugs, I'm familiar with altered states.

Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

This movie is not about drugs and those kinds of altered states. Enjoy the movie.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

Thanks. Can't wait.

And I recommend you see "Riverworld," it's streamable on Netflix. I'm sure you'll enjoy.

Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

ok my comment is too short so I am adding ands, ifs and buts LOL

Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

There are two of them on Netflix. I put both in my que and bumped them up the the top.--just for you/me.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

Haha, don't worry. I'll be sure to add and view what you've recommended. :)

Mentalist acer profile image

Mentalist acer Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

The butterfly effect is the Effect of time travel and not a method..

My concept of the Omniverse is a sphere where all points in time funnel toward the center from noon to noon without anything to effect it. Perception wants to complicate the Omniverse when in fact it's much simpler.

RiverWorld has been in my que for some time...

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

Mentalist: the butterfly effect can't touch time travel.

As I've tried to outline here, the two are mutually exclusive. :)

River World is furken awesome, I recommend highly a++.

And yes, our perceptions do have trouble with such things as the omniverse. :)

Mentalist acer profile image

Mentalist acer Level 6 Commenter 23 months ago

I see if I travel into another timeline its just that another timeline thus no butterfly effect...

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 23 months ago

CORRECT!

You see, just as I diverged timelines in "The further adventures of..." it's the same as in your worldline today. There is no plausible way from here to 20 minutes ago. But I can be here, then 20 minutes ago and have a slightly different looking rat. :)

prasetio30 profile image

prasetio30 Level 8 Commenter 23 months ago

I never know about butterfly effect. But for time travel I heard it many times. Good thought and great information. I really enjoy reading this hub. Thumbs Up for you.

Prasetio

prettydarkhorse profile image

prettydarkhorse Level 2 Commenter 23 months ago

complicated isn't it, time travel, I like the way you write, it is thought provoking and guide you to the next topic of the hub, Maita

ceciliabeltran profile image

ceciliabeltran 23 months ago

The flamboyant writing, the drama conjures david bowie in the labyrinth. the Shamanic style is to reveal and withhold enough. Mystery is the medium of such people in your archetype. You give me images of black eye liner and roving crows. You present some thoughts I've spoken of in forums in plain droning language. No doubt you'll be believed more. There are about a few of us here in this space.

You are a curious creature I've met before. looking forward for more.

Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee Level 4 Commenter 22 months ago

Yo Ixxy! I'm a born again idiot my man! The best video was def MIBII! Thank you Sir!

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

@Prasetio: Thanks for stopping by and comment again! Glad you were able to assimilate. :)

@Maita: Thanks! Glad these little groups I'm formulating are working out. :)

cecilia: My, you wax poetic. :) Archetype, perhaps. I prefer to see it more as a reflection or shard of my soul and personality...yet still harbouring the same core. :)

Micky Dee: Hey, don't let it get ya down. There's plenty other people that can describe this information perhaps even easier! We all learn differently. :)

katiem2 profile image

katiem2 22 months ago

I prefer to dream of electric birds, love to be in flight. Very stimulating thoughts on The Butterfly Effect Time Travel and YOU! I def want to get away from the energy I currently experience, just for a dabble of alterations... Great indeed, love it! Thanks and Peace :)

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Thanks katiem2, good luck in harbouring the energy for the better. Peace be with you. :)

Raven King profile image

Raven King 22 months ago

Wow. I need to read this a few times.

Interesting, but I think one can't savor changing the time line ( or things in the past) just visiting alternate realities. hmmm....

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Oh, I agree Raven. But isn't it much simpler to not go back in time to change your past to make you a success, but rather jump into a space-time whereupon that has already happened? ;D

Joezap profile image

Joezap 22 months ago

Something to keep in mind while traveling about in time.

With the earth rotating around 750MPH and revolving around the Sun, even a time jump of just a minute or two could leave you hung out in the vacuum of space or cooking away inside the planet somewhere.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Hey Joezap!

You're absolutely correct! Some of the truly hard to understand mathematics I didn't include here. Both because it's complicated, and because this whole document was getting a bit long in the tooth. ;)

ptosis profile image

ptosis Level 3 Commenter 22 months ago

Cognitive dissonance - giving - me - a headache - arrrghhhh! "GET OUT OF MY MIND!"

Two places @ the same time?

- or -

Does the future effect the past ...?

Buhahahahahahahahaha!

http://hubpages.com/hub/QuantumIn4

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Haha. ptosis--thanks for dropping by. Cognitive dissonance, indeed. ;)

Not two places at the same time, per se. More like, two completely separate instances of yourself.

The future does not affect the past. Not because time travel doesn't exist, but because unless we're somehow in one of those dimensions where-when some future descendant of your species (or alien force) has been visiting you for years...from a slightly altered world-line, of course. ;)

Peggy W profile image

Peggy W Level 8 Commenter 22 months ago

Think that I will stick to watching Star Trec. Haha!

Actually I think that science fiction writers (dreamers) are often a pace or two ahead of scientists. Amazing stuff out there!!!

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Hey Peggy!

I'd have to agree...we're always a step ahead of the curve, and everyone calls it "fiction." ;)

Peggy W profile image

Peggy W Level 8 Commenter 22 months ago

Facts just seem to trail behind the fiction with fiction in the lead.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

In a universe where anything is possible, when is fiction not fact? ;D

Peggy W profile image

Peggy W Level 8 Commenter 22 months ago

Point taken!

VioletSun profile image

VioletSun Level 5 Commenter 22 months ago

The Butterfly Effect phrase keeps popping up for me and was wondering what it really was about, and here you are writing a hub about this. Pretty cool! I have a friend, an older woman who is an astrologer who shared that when she was younger she found herself traveling spontaneously back in time, to a past life I believe, and met herself much to the shock of both her past and present self. Amazing! As for me, I have had experiences that show me that this world is not what we our five senses tell us, but I was afraid of these experiences, so I held myself back; I want to change this and allow myself to have full out of body experiences, among other things, and do some traveling and chatting with my spiritual beings. :)

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 22 months ago

Hi Violet!

Welcome to the world of beyond. Glad to have met you through k@ri. I love your work--and I'm glad you like mine. :)

qwark profile image

qwark 21 months ago

Ixxy:

Wow!

How this makes we primitive, seeking, pristine cosmic creatures seem to be simple amoeba immersed in a chaotic miasma of quixotic elegance and not knowing for one googolplex moment of time....ANYTHING, but catalytic, meandering confusion and bewilderment

Excellent presentation!

Lady Wordsmith profile image

Lady Wordsmith Level 4 Commenter 18 months ago

Cor blimey!!! I love thinking about this stuff, and reading about it. Just wish I could write about it with as much eloquence as you do :) Excellent read, thanks very much. I will now follow you and read more of your spectacular hubs...

Linda.

lxxy profile image

lxxy Hub Author 18 months ago

@qwark: Thank you..I figure why not just win with style when substance can be so difficult? ;)

Hi Lady Wordsmith!

I am humbled and flattered that you call my style eloquent. Thanks! :) I am no mathematician, mind you, however---I am plenty fine at formulas and theory. :) I love this stuff, too.

Right now, I'm oscillating between fiction and non-fiction. I hope you enjoy a little of both :)

Sorry it took so long to reply, been recording a new track!

Can't wait to see your wonderful words, too!

Sincerely,

lxxy

rebekahELLE profile image

rebekahELLE Level 5 Commenter 11 months ago

I can't believe I missed this when you first published. Amazing. The videos are great. I think when we tap into this dimensional reality, life is never ever the same. It really makes no sense when people get so bent out of shape about life. Have you ever read any of Universal Laws hubs?

I thought of her article while reading yours. I'll come back and read this again. Great stuff.

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    He rose up from a toilet,
    Bearing gifts and bleeding from his ass.
    Inside his disinfected mausoleum,
    He scrubbed his hands and prepared for surgery.

    Inside the operating room he screamed,
    I believe this patient is already dead.
    The nurse's laughter echoed through the halls,
    As the doctor lit a smoke and shook his head.

    "I've discovered another flaw in god's sick invention,

    We have built a time machine to travel through other dimensions."


    The mercitron engaged the patient in,
    A defenseless war against brutality.
    Angered by the latest turn of events,
    The doctor felt he should part company.

    Upon arrival on the planet mars,
    While waiting for the mothership to come.
    Dr. Piranha and his faithful disciples,
    In orbit searched for a baboons heart...

    We are what we are,


    We are, what we are...

    Christ clones are imprisoned,

    In slave camps on a planet of trolls!

    As coal mines and tar pits,

    Are filled with dead astronauts!


    Malpractice in the cosmos,

    The garden of stars is filled with vengeful enemies.

    Assassins and hitmen eagerly await orders for research subjects to be

    purchased by the highest bidder....

    I will be hunted for infinity!

    Detected with a DNA radar they'll watch my every move,

    The voices in my head will never cease,

    Mocking me over and over and over again...!


    We are what we are,


    We are, what we are...

    Christ clones are imprisoned,

    In slave camps on a planet of trolls!

    As coal mines and tar pits,

    Are filled with dead astronauts!

    Please wait working