Don't Propagate the Hate of 8
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Ohh, those crazy Californians are in an uproar, yet again, about Prop 8 being overturned (Really, you thought it was LEGAL? Ahahahah! Sooo cute.) and I do feel sorry for them. Not that they've lost, just that many of them can't see the error of their ways.
So, here's to Prop 8 lovers, haters, and apathetic debaters.. you already know "my" side. Yes, I'm sorry, while many are saying "They didn't listen to my vote! Democracy isn't working!" I'll say two things here and now:
- You're in America, and yes, while all the money Christian groups paid to get Prop 8 passed in California (like any good capitalists)...
- You can't put a piece of hateful legislation into a Constitution.
I mean, it's been done before. Gays can't have sex, men and women have to sleep with each other missionary, it's wrong for interracial couples to exist, women can't vote, yadda yadda. You CAN do something like this, sure. It still doesn't make it right. Which is why it was corrected, yet again.
Listen to Fear!
...and more fear!
And..finally..some funny truth.
Some Thoughts...
First off, marriage is a dying instutition. So don't try to hide behind it. You're screwing yourselves with that. Not homosexuals.
Secondly, the government doesn't even get a right to decide what two consenting adults can marry. Period. So this whole argument, is in fact, invalid from my anarchistic point of view.
Thirdly....I honestly have trouble with ignorance. I am ignorant to understanding the hateful side to this, but then I can easily see how a "Christian" or a "Conservative" may feel they're in the right.
But get over yourselves. You're wrong.
Society is marching on past you. Keep up or move out of the way.
In all sincerity
I really do see how people who voted for prop 8 feel after seeing it overturned. Don't be angry at the homosexuals though, be angry at the conservative money that was spent to put an illegal proposition on the ballot.
Okay, you probably won't be angry with them, either. But none-the-less, this is a democracy. A democracy that supports equal rights for all citizens. Now, in my book, you can leave rights ambiguous--for years after sodomy laws were overturned and even today many states don't have adequate civil protection for the LGBT crowd.
But putting a bill specifically meant to harm a group is not only morally wrong, it's as I've mentioned many times already--inherently illegal.
So please, remember--your vote never counted because it wasn't something you can vote on to begin with.
Only You can Choose to Change with Society
Allow me to break down some of the problems people have with gay marriage. While many have a deep seeded fear and hatred for homosexuals, you'll find most of the reasoning spread by Christian money. Now remember, folks, I don't hate groups. I hate individual actions.
1. If gays can marry, marriage will not be as sacred and Holy as it once was.
False. It's never been sacred and holy, except for those who choose to believe it is.
2. We'll have to start teaching our children about demon buttsecks!!
Err...no. False, again. I don't know when you decide to tell your children about sex, but I surely don't tell'em the act there of. They'll figure it out on their own. Even if it's between the same sex.
3. It'll become more "socially acceptable," leading to more homosexual acts.
Well, that's a tough one. Is homosexuality a choice? Err..no, wait, it's not. Okay, so you're wrong. By the way--do you have gay genes?
4. What's next?! Horses?!
Actually, depending on what country you live--or state, really--it is legal to have intercourse with some animals. Does it make it right? Well, I'm not comfortable with the idea myself. They can't even say no!
But at one point you'll have a myriad different species to choose from--both once human and newly found alien friends. So, in the long run, giving two same sex humans equal rights under marriage is the least of your worries.
Remember---I'll always defend your right to your beliefs. Feel free to fire back if I've trampled over yours. I truly do apologize if this is the case.
Rome is burning, and it's not the homosexuals. It's the greed of man thats bringing you down.
Until our next intersection in space-time,
Namaste!
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Spooky Reaction at a DistanceLoading...
Well said. ;D
I have to laugh - in the nicest way possible ;-)) - at groups that are bent (excuse the pun) on demonising and discriminating and judgeing others. I saw a Christian once talking out against gay priests, and this guy talking away looked like the smallest and meanest individual I've seen. It also made his religion look pathetic.
Most prophets/gods/leaders behind mainstream religions, talk about not judging others.
Weird how the Church just doesn't get that and never has.
Sorry,did I go off topic?
I agree. There is hypocrisy. There's even some hypocrisy within us, as we can't help but to laugh.
Let us not judge. Let us not hate. Let us live, love, and enjoy what we can while we're here. :)
True, within everyone. At least some people admit it to themselves, I know I do!! I guess it's too depressing for some people... The ego in people loves to be right!
Oh, agreed. Those pesky egos. ;)
Yes, homosexuals have the same right as heteros to get their business wrapped up in all the legal entanglements and misery that marriage provides.
haha dabeaner, you remind me of Tim Conway Jr..I must agree with you there. ;)
Which is why K@ri and I are never to be "officially" married; it's just government paperwork.
Ah, so you catch Conway also. But actually, he got that from me. :-)
:D I believe it. Of course I listen to Tim, how can I ever miss a show of "What the hell is Jesse Jackson saying?!" ;D
What I want to know is how HE knows "What the hell is Jesse Jackson saying" so that he can say whether the call-in guesses are correct or not...
Does he go over the tapes with Jesse before the program? ;-)
Haha, perhaps he does...or maybe they have translations online? But ohh, that'd be TOO easy...
This is ridiculous....but the world is getting crazier everyday. Most sane, normal, clear-thinking people know that homosexual behavior is not acceptable behavior, much less an attempt to legitimize it in society with marital status. the people of California, when asked, have always sided with rejecting the "gay rights" movement to re-write the definitions of marriage.
Oh, you had me at the first line. And then I realized, you were warning me what you were about to say was going to be odd. I like it, I'll think about this world of yours...so full of ignorance, and lack of knowledge.
I spoke with all the species on your planet that conduct homosexual acts--they're not too happy at this mindset, and ask you to shake your magic 8-ball God again for a better answer.
Namaste!
Oh, I see your problem,....your god is some magic 8-ball idol! That explains it. That is why you live in ignorance and lack of knowledge. Well, anyway, there is no hatred in defending marriage and what it stands for in decent society.
Nice. I'll admit, this is heated--as we both know.
At the end of the day, sir, your concept of marriage is borne from selling women and cattle into relationships.
I believe marriage should be a private affair between one and their family, or church. The government has no stake in said things.
You easily confuse homosexuality with the degradation of your society. It's alright, it's easy to point a finger.
It's much harder to decide to be responsible for learning how to co-exist peacefully with those who seem dissimilar to you.
Good luck in finding God,
Namaste!
I do not speak of government's stake in this matter, I speak of society's stake in this matter. As a people, we establish society as a standard bearer of our principles and the institutions that represent these principles. Marriage is a fundamental institution to build the society and the people have every right to uphold the principles of what the original definition of marriage stand for. Homosexuality is a behavior that is rejected by the majority of our society. It is not to say that homosexuals cant engage in their abnormal and indecent behavior. Where the line is drawn in society, it to give it a place of normalcy and honor. Society refuses to rewrite its laws of decency and common sense and accept this behavior into its mainstream. ...oh and I have found God, and I am very clear and confident in his teachings.
Okay. I'm glad we're clear on that situation; I'll refrain from religion.
As you say, society decides what's "normal."
It was normal to marry your cousin.
It was normal to not have inter-racial relations.
And besides--you speak of one society--yours. Yours is separate from others.
And society constantly evolves.
So I just ask for you to keep up.
Because you're being left behind.
But I do see where you're coming from.
Society has not evolved in this direction. Look at the votes of the people everywhere "gay marriage" is brought up. My exact point is that this radical gay movement is bullying its way where it has been rejected by society. I am not left behind, Just tired of insanity masquerading as normal. You know it in y9our instincts, but you have cowered to pressure
I fear you're wrong there.
See where we're getting at is semantics.
In effect, you coming from a different society from me--your votes shift a different way.
We're separated by generation and distance.
Yes, of course, Prop 8 was voted for--but you're forgetting one big piece of this WHOLE thing sir--
it's ILLEGAL to VOTE in legislation that takes away rights instead of giving them.
So yes, we can go around and around talking about how society "votes" one way--but 1. you'd be surprised by how many people don't think like you and 2. more people I know--this includes elderly people, middle aged, men, women--gay, straight--more people I know around the world personally would vote for gay marriage.
I'd probably be surprised by how many people are still against it--but it's not as many as you'd like to believe.
At any rate, I enjoy this conversation.
But I'm afraid we've come full circle to an impasse.
You want to call this whole thing some sort of "radical gay movement," and it's like anything else--I don't support political pandering through money.
This is how Pro8 in California won the first time. Money.
And if the "homosexual agenda" achieves their goal through the same way--who is better?
At any rate--you can fear flannel wearing women and lisping men.
I'm going to keep my eye out on the crazy evangelicals and the looney left.
Until our next intersection in space-time,
lxxy
I dont fear homosexual behavior. I do, however, recognize its folly and I understand society's right to uphold standards when it comes to behavior. You have misplaced behavior with gender or race. Society has always had a right to regulate behavior. It is why nudists dont walk around in public in the nude. It is why alcoholics cant come to work drunk. Society is only protecting marriage definition as one woman to one man. It is also why polygemists dont get there way. When it comes to behavior, society must have rules or their would be chaos.
LOL I can't believe you got this past the googlebot, but ya did. Kudos! I agree with you too.
Do unto others...that religious enough for him???!!!
@Braudboy -
I think society is much more concerned with the proper use of "their" and "there" than it is with the "proper use" of anyone's genitalia.
You are confusing "society" with something concrete and static.
You say "society must have rules, or their (sic) would be chaos."
The fact is, society is determined by the rules we agree upon. The rules - or lack thereof - define a society.
At one time, people were idiots and did not allow inter-racial marriage. At this time, people are STILL idiots, and do not allow gay marriage.
I am confident that the idiots of our society will find some new set of rights to deny people... and finally forget this poppycock about rejecting rights to humans who enjoy the company of those who are anatomically similar.
Maybe, it'll be the non-Christians' turn to be idiots, and we'll deny basic rights to folks like you. :-)
One can hope, eh?
Ahhh... ease up! I'm joking. Kind of.
Wow..this blew up! ;)
@braudboy A few points here. 1. I don't confuse gender and race. I also don't confuse gender with sexuality. Two different things. Don't believe me? Take seahorses for example--among other species. Men carry the eggs and hatch.
Or reef fish. Those guys change their sex at least once in their life.
So...err..in that case--who are you supposed to mate with? Your buddy one day--and hot girl date the next?
I'm sorry--I can't understand how you determine it to be a folly when it's represented by all species on this planet.
@ralwus I'm less "edgy" than so many others AdSense likes. ;)
@Mentalist_acer I don't like to speak for anyone else other than myself, but I think we're discussing this whole issue from a social perspective rather than a religious one.
@SeeDee
I can't disagree with anything you've said. Just don't badger people too much. ;P
Thanks for your input all!
Namaste.
Live and Let Live Then...
Agreed. ;D
The whole issue has been complicated by the government intruding into areas where it has no business, including marriage. Marriage has long been a religious ceremony. And the religions had their standards as to who could marry whom.
Then, the governments butted in with "licensing". That is where the trouble started. Because governments then started in with legal restrictions involving pensions, including Social Security in the U.S., tax treatment, etc. Businesses started in with restrictions of company perquisites such as insurance, etc.
The solution, that will never happen, is for the government to butt out of the marriage, hetero or homo, licensing business. The solution, that will never happen, is for businesses to NOT be allowed to provide ANY perks other than salary and vacation. That would create a level playing field for both hetero and homo, "married" or single, child burdened or childless. But of course, those who are given preferential treatment due to the various laws and customs are not going to be willing to give them up.
I guess in a topic like this, I have to state where I am coming from. I don't care if two people want to b-f or c-l each other. It makes no difference to me whether homosexual marriage is licensed or not. I don't believe in some stupid "god" concept where the god, depending on liberal or conservative interpretations of old myths and history, will smite or not.
It still falls on society to set the standard and the principles we live by. In regards to a behavior, society has a right to do so. It does not discriminate as it merely prohibits or allows the behavior. Society has given marriage a definition and it is one man to one woman. There is not one bit of discrimination in this definition. The homosexual movement has tried to twist the arguement and tried to cry racism or discrimination, but it holds no water. ...and seedee, society doesnt concern itself with your genetalia habits, it does concern itself with its institution of marriage and what its meaning is and what it stands for.
mentalist- you say live and let live. OK, what if my freedom to live as I choose means I want to live in your house. Are you going to scooch over and not trample my right to choose where I live? You obviously see a society's role in setting up a system of rules and principles to abide by. Marriage is one of those areas where society can set up the family unit and to help provide a system for society to flourish.
In spite of its foreground appearances, ethical Socialism is not a system of compassion, humanity, peace and kindly care, but one of will-to-power. Any other reading of it is illusory. The Stoic take the world as he finds it, but the Socialist wants to organize and recast it in form and substance, to fill it with his own spirit. The Stoic adapts himself, the Socialist commands. He would have the whole world take the shape he desires.
Ixxy- you cant compare humans with other species. If you are going to justify human behavior with other animals, then I guess man can hibernate all winter like the bear, or flap his arms and fly like birds, or breathe underwater like fish.....give me a break. It is quite obvious how man is created and how compatible we are with the opposite sex called woman. I wont go into detail at how perfectly we match up, unless you need an anatomy lesson. I will also spare you as to how sorely mismatched we become when this attempt is made with the same sex.
@PrometheusKid
I can see where you're coming from. I'm not really too into socialistic ideas; I'd recommend looking into Taoism for example, for a better grasp where I'm coming from.
You break down stoic versus socialist; and I'll admit, I'd rather be called stoic than many other names. However, there's so many words, philosophies, possibilities...in the end, humanity has shot it's self in the foot time and time again by raising others above another. That, to me, is problem numero uno.
On the surface this looks like communism, but communism places the state/community above all else.
@braudboy: I can compare humans to other species. It's very simple. The fact you dislike the idea of another animal being very similar to you doesn't change the fact you're still linked on several levels to all life on this planet.
Bottom line, one last time:
It is natural. It is normal. It has existed in society as long as humanity has.
Man is very compatible with woman; the anatomy matches up. Society created more differences in gender, to make things sexy. We call these things "heels," "skirts," "assless chaps," you know the like.
But you're thinking sex is some sort of biological process--which it is--besides, as you and I--as well as many other animals on the planet--it's also fun.
Often romantic, sometimes pure lust, it's a great cardio work out.
It's quite obvious that you've decided that since there's a plug here--and a port there--someone created this system.
Oh, someone did. Time and circumstance. And how fun it was for your primordial ancestors to discover sex between two different multi celled organisms.
Enjoy it!
Just don't hate those who are born with different tendencies.
It is not about hate....it is about having morals and standards and values. Do you not think any of these are important. YOu say enjoy and have fun. It might be fun to have a fling with your neighbor's wife or to cheat on your spouse....if you are lacking in the morals and values area. Poor behavior is just that...and society has made the call on homosexual behavior
Hey braudboy, thank you for your prompt reply. I am also sorry it took me awhile to get back initially.
You know, I value you, for being who you are and interacting on HubPages. For showing your creative side.
Right now, I feel that I'm hard headed--in all honesty--and you're certainly not persuaded, I'm not budging either. So I think that my continued involvement right now would just be banter.
So I'm shutting up from my end, because frankly--We're all just star dust, made of all the same stuff, and all I want to do is co-exist with as much other sentient star dust that I can.
Namaste.
Mentalist acer Level 6 Commenter 21 months ago
The problem with the constitutional right to freedom of State and Religion is the neglegence to legislate extremism and the lean on the civil liberties of a legal citizen is exorcising cruel and unusual punishment;)